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A Thousand Suns and What's Wrong with it.
I've loved Linkin Park since "In the End", it's fair to say they are my favorite band, and to be honest A Thousand Suns is an insult to all previous fans of Linkin Park.
I understand they are trying to do new things. Fine, do new things. But don't isolate your already established fan base. With Minutes to Midnight there were new things, for example they ditched the Nu-Metal sound and there was even a guitar solo during the song "In Pieces" which I don't recall having happened before and many other differences. But MTM still had other songs that catered to the fans that had been around since the beginning. It was a fair compromise.
A Thousand Suns does just the opposite. The song list was advertised initially as 15, and I thought to myself, "Wow, that's awesome, they'll have one instrumental and then likely go about half and half, keeping their fans happy and trying more new things." Unfortunately that's not how it turned out. I can't even say there's an instrumental in the album, instead there are 5 filler tracks. I wouldn't even call that music. I could take an old recording and synthesize it to make it sound robotic/different. That alone is a slap in the face to the entire fan base. Then there's the songs themselves that sound nothing like Linkin Park. Mike doesn't even sound the same rapping, and that's a problem. We as fans should at least be able to recognize the band.
Please don't buy this album. I would like my money and my favorite band back. The true fans have waited around for 3 and a half years so Chester could go do his "solo" things and are left empty handed. This is not the Linkin Park I know, and that disappoints me to even acknowledge. Last I checked fans matter, and A Thousand Suns is a monument of ignorance.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Matthew Channell on -
Good point with Wisdom. Yeah I may never listen to it just for the music, but I do have some ideas for that "song" or whatever you call it. This would make great background music for a little project I am working on with a friend.
Sam Schmitt said:David Matthew Channell said:I don't see them as so many filler tracks. Yeah there is some fat on this album that could be cut out, but lets break this down shall we?
"The Requiem and The Radiance" I count as one song. So that's -1 to the total. Down to 14.
"Empty Spaces" I don't get that... - 1 Down to 13.
"Jornada del Muerto" yeah...could be counted as a Cure for the Itch but -1 Down to 12.
"Wisdom Justice and Love" is just too freaking powerful to count as filler. NO deduction.
"Fallout" Yeah... filler filler filler -1
IMO grand total is 11, just one short of a certain CD that people count as the best thing to ever happen to music...and I even discounted one that I count as the spiritual successor of "Cure for the Itch".
Fair enough. But I don't see many of those as things that you are going to listen to over and over again. Sure Wisdom Justic and Love had some power to it. But can you honestly tell me you are going to put the CD in and be like "Man I really want to listen to that song"? I can't. And that's the issue. I may be pointing out all the negatives, but I really don't feel as much energy behind the songs. It's just not something I'm excited to listen to. I'm tired of all the melodramatic crap. Sure, Shadow of the Day was good. But a whole album of almost the same theme is too much.
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Permalink Reply by Ted Belbin on
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This album sucked.
People initally liked the band due to the punk/nu metal/electronica sound
Now they've completely changed genre's to pop/electronica/raggae?/shit( Mike imitating a Jamaican on one of the songs)
I guess thats what happens when you sell out.
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Permalink Reply by Meryl on
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YES.
J said:ARE YOU BLOODY KIDDING ME?
I have been a fan since HT & HTEP. Reanimation was incredible. Meteora I took as an Extension of HT.
M2M = total pile of crap.
Why was all of the above great and M2M crap?
Because LP was original and innovative. A thousand Suns is going back to what LP stands for. Fusion of various musical styles and elements to create new and interesting sounds. REMEMBER they were called Hybrid Theory before they were ever called Linkin Park.
As far as I am concerned people crying over new metal are a bunch of annoying moody emo kids jumping on the MTV bandwagon. Get real. Music should be artistic, not commercial.
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Permalink Reply by Ells on
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I've been listening to LP since day one and honestly, I feel that the album is a reflection of their maturity, their experience and knowledge that they've gathered over the years. I'm almost 30 and it's a breath of fresh air to listen to an album that caters to my age group for a change. ATS is definitely a step up from anything I've heard in a long time... even beyond U2.
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Permalink Reply by damlp510 on
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ATS = masterpiece. Instead of asserting that you are biased and fixated on the past, why not listen to ATS another one or two times. Clearly you are not giving ATS a chance. This album has a bit more of an acquired taste to it, especially since this is a sound that is new and is extremely unique. If mainstream is your shit then, LP is the wrong band you're following, they specialize in innovative music. ATS is meant to be heard as an album, fillers as you would call are necessary transitions into other tracks. Me and my colleagues initially did not know what to think of this album, we did not expect this, but it was extremely rewarding once we understood "it". As for LP being sell-outs, I believe that being paid to do something that you love, is not considered selling out.
Ted Belbin said:This album sucked.
People initally liked the band due to the punk/nu metal/electronica sound
Now they've completely changed genre's to pop/electronica/raggae?/shit( Mike imitating a Jamaican on one of the songs)
I guess thats what happens when you sell out.
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Permalink Reply by Ells on
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Well said damlp510..
Fans who say Linkin Park "Sucks" or This album "Sucked" are truly not Linkin Park fans and aren't giving the album a chance. Someone mentioned earlier that it's not the album but the listener and I would have to agree 100% on that statement. Real Linkin Park fans will understand... everyone else probably won't.
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Permalink Reply by Sam Schmitt on
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Ells said:Well said damlp510..
Fans who say Linkin Park "Sucks" or This album "Sucked" are truly not Linkin Park fans and aren't giving the album a chance. Someone mentioned earlier that it's not the album but the listener and I would have to agree 100% on that statement. Real Linkin Park fans will understand... everyone else probably won't.
Okay. That's a fair assumption. However, it has now been almost two weeks, and I have listened to the album around 10 times I would say, and my opinion remains largely unchanged. How any of you can argue that 6 filler songs isn't a joke is ridiculous.
I'm not saying the entire album is garbage, and I'm not saying they shouldn't try anything new, but there's an extent. If they were going to go and create an entirely different sounding album then change the name of the band. In all reality that's how it should be. What Chester did with Dead by Sunrise was the right way to go, and same with Mike and Fort Minor, but Linkin Park was never anything close to reggae and in my opinion (some of you seem to not understand that word) they never should be. I wanted to love this album, and I still try to convince myself it's as good as the others, but I can't. It had a large amount of potential and it fell flat. I for one didn't wait 3 and a half years for 9 songs.
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Permalink Reply by Cillian on -
Sam Schmitt said:Fair enough. But I don't see many of those as things that you are going to listen to over and over again. Sure Wisdom Justic and Love had some power to it. But can you honestly tell me you are going to put the CD in and be like "Man I really want to listen to that song"? I can't.
Yes actually, seeing as I usually listen to albums as a whole anyway, the way this album should be listened to, those tracks will get plenty playtime.
And that's the issue. I may be pointing out all the negatives, but I really don't feel as much energy behind the songs. It's just not something I'm excited to listen to. I'm tired of all the melodramatic crap.
That's hilariously ironic seeing as your reaction to ATS is entirely melodramatic.
Sure, Shadow of the Day was good. But a whole album of almost the same theme is too much.
Big LOL at that. HT & Meteora are nothing but the same vague lyrical themes throughout both records. Pain, numb, lies over and over.
What I find stunning is the unwillingness of certain people to look at HT & Meteora with the same critical eye they look at ATS with. But no, HT&Met are on the pedestal and must not be judged other than devine.
Sam Schmitt said:Yes. But there's also a thing called fan-service.
I went into this in another thread, but I'll say it again. The band owe us nothing. It does not matter if you were "waiting" for 3 years, it doesn't matter how many concert tickets or CD's you bought, you do not have a right to demand anything of their creativity and they are not obliged to cater to your wants.
No they aren't forcing me to buy it, but let's put it this way. If you had been buying a product from a corporation that worked extremely well for 10 year, then all of a sudden when you upgraded to the new version that they had been promoting and it didn't work nearly as well as the others, wouldn't you be frustrated? It's the same sort of scenario. I didn't say it had to be exactly like their older stuff, but it didn't have to distance itself from it entirely, if that was the case they might as well release it under a new name.
Did you seriously just compare art to an assembly line product?
Using "If it ain't broke don't fix it" as an analogy for how art should be made shows your complete lack of understanding for creative processes.
Production line music is soulless.
And please, inform me how you can justify 5 filler tracks. I would love to hear that argument. Without that I might more readily agree with you. That's just lazy, it's not musical talent to do that and it's not really promoting much of a message. "The Little Things Give You Away" was a pretty good song with a message and it was still a song. That's the point.
Lazy? They spent 2 years experimenting with sounds & pushing their songwriting. Lazy? That's anything but, that's tireless. Lazy would be doing the same thing again and again. They can write old style songs in their sleep, as evidenced by QWERTY, which they wrote in less than a week. They could churn a few of those albums out a year. That would be lazy.
ATS is their longest studio album at 48 minutes. Take out the 5 segues and the 9 actual songs are 40 minutes, which is still longer than both HT & Meteora.
Just because you don't like a song doesn't mean it ceases to exist and therefore there's now only 8 songs. Don't be ridiculous.
If you can't feel the vibe and the emotional weight of the segues that's your problem. You view them as filler, I don't. I think they work great in the context of the album and go a long way to tying it together.
Sam Schmitt said:Linkin Park was never anything close to reggae and in my opinion (some of you seem to not understand that word) they never should be.
I'll go ahead and cite "In Pieces" which has some reggae elements. I'll go back further and point out that LP experimented with reggae elements in an early version of Don't Stay. Pull out your Meteora booklet and look at the notes if you don't believe me. So it's been there a long time.
Ted Belbin said:This album sucked.
"I met a boy wearing Vans, 501's..."
No, selling out would be making music just to keep your fans happy & spending money. Selling out is sacrificing artistic integrity for monetary gain, NOT changing your sound.
If LP wanted to sell out they went the wrong way about it. In the 2 years they were experimenting they could have easily churned out 2 or 3 albums with a dozen 3 minute pop structured songs on each, i.e. Meteora, without breaking a sweat.
Instead they took those 2 years to make an album that bucks current mainstream music trends of cherry picking songs, an album that needs to listened to whole to be fully appreciated. An album that isn't full of 3 minute ababcb radio structured songs.
They released a 5:40 min song with no clear structure as a first single for Christ sake. Hello? That does not line up with selling out, it's the opposite.
"So point that fuckin finger up your ass" and "Try to catch up Motherfucka"
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Permalink Reply by Blackbears24 on
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Cillian said:Sam Schmitt said:Fair enough. But I don't see many of those as things that you are going to listen to over and over again. Sure Wisdom Justic and Love had some power to it. But can you honestly tell me you are going to put the CD in and be like "Man I really want to listen to that song"? I can't.
Yes actually, seeing as I usually listen to albums as a whole anyway, the way this album should be listened to, those tracks will get plenty playtime.And that's the issue. I may be pointing out all the negatives, but I really don't feel as much energy behind the songs. It's just not something I'm excited to listen to. I'm tired of all the melodramatic crap.
That's hilariously ironic seeing as your reaction to ATS is entirely melodramatic.Sure, Shadow of the Day was good. But a whole album of almost the same theme is too much.
Big LOL at that. HT & Meteora are nothing but the same vague lyrical themes throughout both records. Pain, numb, lies over and over.
What I find stunning is the unwillingness of certain people to look at HT & Meteora with the same critical eye they look at ATS with. But no, HT&Met are on the pedestal and must not be judged other than devine.
Sam Schmitt said:Yes. But there's also a thing called fan-service.
I went into this in another thread, but I'll say it again. The band owe us nothing. It does not matter if you were "waiting" for 3 years, it doesn't matter how many concert tickets or CD's you bought, you do not have a right to demand anything of their creativity and they are not obliged to cater to your wants.No they aren't forcing me to buy it, but let's put it this way. If you had been buying a product from a corporation that worked extremely well for 10 year, then all of a sudden when you upgraded to the new version that they had been promoting and it didn't work nearly as well as the others, wouldn't you be frustrated? It's the same sort of scenario. I didn't say it had to be exactly like their older stuff, but it didn't have to distance itself from it entirely, if that was the case they might as well release it under a new name.
Did you seriously just compare art to an assembly line product?
Using "If it ain't broke don't fix it" as an analogy for how art should be made shows your complete lack of understanding for creative processes.
Production line music is soulless.
And please, inform me how you can justify 5 filler tracks. I would love to hear that argument. Without that I might more readily agree with you. That's just lazy, it's not musical talent to do that and it's not really promoting much of a message. "The Little Things Give You Away" was a pretty good song with a message and it was still a song. That's the point.
Lazy? They spent 2 years experimenting with sounds & pushing their songwriting. Lazy? That's anything but, that's tireless. Lazy would be doing the same thing again and again. They can write old style songs in their sleep, as evidenced by QWERTY, which they wrote in less than a week. They could churn a few of those albums out a year. That would be lazy.
ATS is their longest studio album at 48 minutes. Take out the 5 segues and the 9 actual songs are 40 minutes, which is still longer than both HT & Meteora.
Just because you don't like a song doesn't mean it ceases to exist and therefore there's now only 8 songs. Don't be ridiculous.
If you can't feel the vibe and the emotional weight of the segues that's your problem. You view them as filler, I don't. I think they work great in the context of the album and go a long way to tying it together.
Sam Schmitt said:Linkin Park was never anything close to reggae and in my opinion (some of you seem to not understand that word) they never should be.
I'll go ahead and cite "In Pieces" which has some reggae elements. I'll go back further and point out that LP experimented with reggae elements in an early version of Don't Stay. Pull out your Meteora booklet and look at the notes if you don't believe me. So it's been there a long time.
Ted Belbin said:This album sucked.
"I met a boy wearing Vans, 501's..."
No, selling out would be making music just to keep your fans happy & spending money. Selling out is sacrificing artistic integrity for monetary gain, NOT changing your sound.
If LP wanted to sell out they went the wrong way about it. In the 2 years they were experimenting they could have easily churned out 2 or 3 albums with a dozen 3 minute pop structured songs on each, i.e. Meteora, without breaking a sweat.
Instead they took those 2 years to make an album that bucks current mainstream music trends of cherry picking songs, an album that needs to listened to whole to be fully appreciated. An album that isn't full of 3 minute ababcb radio structured songs.
They released a 5:40 min song with no clear structure as a first single for Christ sake. Hello? That does not line up with selling out, it's the opposite.
"So point that fuckin finger up your ass" and "Try to catch up Motherfucka"
Wow...very very well put there Cillian.
I only wish I could put my thoughts down like that.
Sorry to revive an almost dead thread but I had to respond and besides, all the whiners and bitchers should really get a chance to read Cillian's post. Or maybe thay already have :-) I notice Mr. Schmitt hasn't bothered to show up since it was posted :-)
I've read many threads like this one when it comes to my favorite bands changing their sounds. There are usualy two things that get under my skin with them.
MY band owes me a certain album, sound or style cause I've been a fan since the start and have gave them millions
Two of my other favorite bands, U2 and Metallica, have changed their sound with almost every album they have ever put out. I've heard the fans scream and cry. (Me not being one of them) They don't owe you a damn thing. They provide a service, so to speak, and if you want that service than you pay for it...or you just take :-) Believe it or not the members of LP are not your close family members and don't have to consult you on their creative ventures. They create things that make THEM happy and if you don't like those things then just walk away.
MY band has totaly SOLD OUT!!!
I watched an interview with Bono a few years ago and he addresed the sell out thing the best. He basicly said exactly what Cillian said. "Selling out is doing something you don't want to do for money" LP is doing EXACTLY what they wanna do and they could care less how much money they're getting. CB did an interview with MTV recently where he basicly said he didn't care about the fact that they only sold 240,000 copies in the first week because people don't buy entire albums anymore and many just grab it from torrent sites. They are not doing something they don't wanna do for cash. THEY ARE NOT SELLOUTS.
BTW..THEY ARE NOT FILLER TRACKS. This is a concept album. Those "Filler Tracks" are put there to tie all the songs together to form a cohesive theme or story. This is the first time LP has done this. Many other bands have done it with amazing results. Check out Tool, Iron Maiden & NIN. Hell...check out Queensryce. The Beatles? The Who? Pink Floyd?
I understand if some of you are pissed, angry, disenchanted and most importantly...dissapointed. I really do and I totaly respect that. You all have that right. I'm not gonna rip on you because you don't like this album. If we all liked the same thing this world would be a really boring world. BUT...don't come to a public forum and allow your emotions to spew stupid shit out of your mouth. LP is still an AMAZING band.(Not to mention an amazing live act) You don't have to like EVERYTHING they do.
Dammit!!! I've basicly said everything every other ATS supporter has said. Oh well I guess maybe I let my emotions get to me a little also.
Oh...BTW....I FREAKIN LOVE THIS ALBUM!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Richard Christian on
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I totally disagree with you. If it were not possible for musicians to change and move in new directions, we would still be listening to 50's style rock n roll. I have heard this album several times and like it more each time I listen to it. I applaud Linkin Park for this album and hope they continue to create new and exciting music. Open up your mind and become a true fan instead of a genre fan.
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Permalink Reply by mirjana on -
i dont understand why people keep looking for mistakes on this new album?
why cant you just enjoy and be happy that they released new album
<3linkin park<3
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Permalink Reply by Henry Edwards-Xu on -
J said:
In all fairness, M2M was a pretty prime example of a fusion between different styles of music. As the first post mentioned, M2M had a variety between the new stuff and the old. WhateverARE YOU BLOODY KIDDING ME?
I have been a fan since HT & HTEP. Reanimation was incredible. Meteora I took as an Extension of HT.
M2M = total pile of crap.
Why was all of the above great and M2M crap?
Because LP was original and innovative. A thousand Suns is going back to what LP stands for. Fusion of various musical styles and elements to create new and interesting sounds. REMEMBER they were called Hybrid Theory before they were ever called Linkin Park.
As far as I am concerned people crying over new metal are a bunch of annoying moody emo kids jumping on the MTV bandwagon. Get real. Music should be artistic, not commercial.
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