Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dex on September 27, 2010 at 4:39am

You know what Glen, that was almost a good argument, until you lowered yourself by swearing on a forum full of children, that bans profanity.
Completely sad how you berate Linkin Park for their actions, yet your own are obviously not very well thought through, or are just selfish.
Your opinion of the album doesn't really matter when you dumb it down unnecessarily, it just become trolling.

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Permalink Reply by Jon Pultz on September 27, 2010 at 5:55am

I do have to agree with you on that. I've been trying to make my point in a respectful manner. I'm not always perfect at it albeit, but I still try. Swearing and trolling will get no one anywhere.

Dex said:

You know what Glen, that was almost a good argument, until you lowered yourself by swearing on a forum full of children, that bans profanity.
Completely sad how you berate Linkin Park for their actions, yet your own are obviously not very well thought through, or are just selfish.
Your opinion of the album doesn't really matter when you dumb it down unnecessarily, it just become trolling.

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Permalink Reply by Cillian on September 27, 2010 at 6:50pm

I'll preface this with a bit of my own LP history:
I've been a huge LP fan since late 2000, a while after HT (solid record, but put on the "untouchable-pedestal" by many) came out. First saw the OSC video, was hooked and my musical awakening began. That's almost 10 years ago, I was 12.

10 years on, many bands listened to (favourites being Metallica, Tool, Opeth, Joe Satriani, Rodrigo Y Gabriela, John Butler Trio, Apocalyptica, Led Zeppelin, Christy Moore, Puscifer, APC) and I think ATS is hands down the best record LP have released.
And before some jackass pipes up with "SHEEP!" I'll state that I think Meteora is a terrible album. Overproduced & overwritten to death. Same simple 3 minute perfect-for-radio structure over and over. Vague, cliché lyrics that just say the same thing over and over. Yeah, it sounds good due to glossy productio, but it's actually badly written.
It's LP's biggest mistake. I say that because instead of actually furthering their songwriting skills they caved to pressure from the Suits and wrote a record to the Record Labels criteria. They tried to capture what HT was (& failed, even regressed), & thus cementing in some peoples minds an idea of what LP is supposed to be but which is ultimately false.

I have no love for Colision Course either.

MTM was about half & half in terms of well written vs poorly written. WID, Given Up, very poor songs. TLTGYA, HHH - fantastic songs. The spirit of the latter being what I was hoping they'd take forward, & and thankfully they did.

The songwriting on ATS is just superior start to finish (though I still think TLTGYA is the best single song they've written). Creative structures & sounds (that's not even debateable BTW), solid lyrics across the board except for a bit here & there but LP have never been master lyricists. The album just flows start to finish. It's a very natural progression from HT and Renimation. It's pure LP, there's pretty much no outside influence. In other words it's the complete opposite of Meteora.

Who cares if there's no heavy guitars? Seriously. Heavy does not automatically equal good, though judging from many posts here that's exactly what some of you think.

Make no mistake, I am not claiming ATS is the best album ever. It's not perfect and there are several albums from other bands I'd take over it, I'm saying it's the best LP album.

I'm also not putting this post down as a blanket statement for anyone who doesn't like the ATS. Not liking it is completely fine, it's not going to be for everyone. It's aimed at the "OMG this isn't Meteora so it sucks!" crowd that seems to be rampant on this board.

Pixie Ray said:

Has anyone read the interview they did with Kerrang in the Aug 28th, issue 1327? Please, before passing any judgement on my post READ IT. Yes, I am dissapointed in the new album but hey I can get over it and hope and pray they are going to go back to their old stuff on their next album. What has REALLY PISSED ME OFF is that article. Basically, it makes it sound like they stuck their fingers up at their fans.

No no no, you're all wrong there dude. They flipped off the "fans" who think the fact they bought a CD or gig ticket that they can dictate to the band what kind of music they should be writing. Reading your post, you would fall into that category.

They wanted to do something different and couldn't give a shit what anyone else thought.

Damn straight, & more power too them. They shouldn't give a shit what the fans want them to write. If you like it good, enjoy the ride while it lasts. If you don't like it fine, you can get off whenever you want.

That really upset me. After all, without their fans where the hell would they be?

This is the attitude that I find mindboggling.
It doesn't matter and it's very arrogant to assume you can hold the "where would you be without us" card over their head to try to control them. They can and do show their appreciation in other ways.

If you became a fan when they were doing what they wanted, why should they stop doing what they want after that point? To keep you spending money on them?
If you answered "Yes" to that then you actually want them to sell out. That's "sell out" in it's true form -- The sacrifice of artistic integrity for monetary gain.

Yes, you are the artists and should be allowed to do what you like with your music. But shouldn't they also consider others, especially their fans when they are the ones supporting them, listening to them, cheering them on?

No! They shouldn't consider anyone else. At all. And that paragraph is totally contradictory. "Yeah, do what you want, just as long as it's what I want you to do."

Buying their CD doesn't give you an in to tell them what to do, nor does it obligate the band to cater to your whims.
Full stop. Period. End of fucking story.

Instead, they sounded like selfish egotistical twats that wanted to do what they wanted to do and couldn't give a shit on what others thought.

They must be selfish and controlling if they want this kind of career, otherwise they'll have other people (fans, The Label) interfering at every turn and the end piece will not accurately represent them *cough* Meteora *cough*.

At one point they said they wanted to get away from the Linkin Park persona as much as possible. Why??? That is who they are! Thats what the fans frickin love!! Thats what brought out this new genre of music all those years ago. I dont understand why they are ashamed.

1. No, they want to get away from what some people think is LP's persona. Big difference.
2. Again no. It's part of who they are. Not the entirety of who they are.
3. That's what some fans love. I for one value artistic integrity and pushing the envelope over keeping the fans happy. es, even if that means they write stuff I don't like. As long as it's from their heart I'll respect it.
4. Linkin Park did NOT bring about that genre. It already existed.
5. They are NOT ashamed of their past records and they state this continuously in their interviews. It's as simple as the old style presents no challenge and is very boring for them to write.

----------------------------
I'll pose a question to everyone clamouring for LP to go back to writing their old stuff:

Are you the same person you were 10 years ago? Do you do all the same things? Think the same things? View the world in EXACTLY the same way?

If you answered "yes" then I'm very sad that you have not managed any personal growth in all that time.

If you answered "no", then why the hell do you expect anyone else to? Let alone a group of people who have travelled the world several times having many experiences, both together and individually?

I am planning on writing an article about this. Would anyone object me taking some of their comments as quotes? And if you have anything else to add feel free. I'm not here to piss anyone off and bitch out Linkin Park, I'm still a fan, still love them, just hope to God they show SOME appreciation towards us and get their head out of the clouds.

The only people with their head in the clouds are people like you who think Mike should ring them up and ask how you want the next batch of songs to be constructed, and then take it as a personal affront when that doesn't happen. And then have the arrogance & hypocrisy to call the band "selfish, egotistical twats".

This is why I don't come here very often. And if this is where the LPU is headed.... yeesh.

Thank Jesus, Allah, Buddah AND Superman for the LPA, LPL, etc.

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Permalink Reply by SajiNoKami on September 27, 2010 at 7:28pm

Cillian said: Pixie Ray said:

They wanted to do something different and couldn't give a shit what anyone else thought.

Damn straight, & more power too them. They shouldn't give a shit what the fans want them to write. If you like it good, enjoy the ride while it lasts. If you don't like it fine, you can get off whenever you want.

That really upset me. After all, without their fans where the hell would they be?

This is the attitude that I find mindboggling.
It doesn't matter and it's very arrogant to assume you can hold the "where would you be without us" card over their head to try to control them. They can and do show their appreciation in other ways.

This all the way. I see that card held over so many.
It's art, it evolves, and if they let the fans stop that from happening,
that will be a sad day. What's wrong with people?

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Permalink Reply by Jon Pultz on September 28, 2010 at 5:39am

Obviously, you have very little music appreciation, because A thousand Suns IS NOT MUSIC! It's a bunch of soundbites thrown together over low budget synth beats. Yes, you are correct in saying that Meteora did get a bit repetitive, but the point was that it was something new, something different. No one had heard it before.

I can respect your opinion on the albums, and I'm not saying you have to like it, but what I am saying is that you should respect others opinions as well. You had no problem coming on here and tearing apart other people's opinions, and that just isn't right. PEOPLE THINK DIFFERENTLY FROM YOU! GET OVER IT! You had a total a blatant disregard for anyone's opinion. You made some very good points, yes, but you didn't go about it in a good manner. How can you hope to have people listen to you if you don't treat others with respect.

Cillian said:

I'll preface this with a bit of my own LP history:
I've been a huge LP fan since late 2000, a while after HT (solid record, but put on the "untouchable-pedestal" by many) came out. First saw the OSC video, was hooked and my musical awakening began. That's almost 10 years ago, I was 12.

10 years on, many bands listened to (favourites being Metallica, Tool, Opeth, Joe Satriani, Rodrigo Y Gabriela, John Butler Trio, Apocalyptica, Led Zeppelin, Christy Moore, Puscifer, APC) and I think ATS is hands down the best record LP have released.
And before some jackass pipes up with "SHEEP!" I'll state that I think Meteora is a terrible album. Overproduced & overwritten to death. Same simple 3 minute perfect-for-radio structure over and over. Vague, cliché lyrics that just say the same thing over and over. Yeah, it sounds good due to glossy productio, but it's actually badly written.
It's LP's biggest mistake. I say that because instead of actually furthering their songwriting skills they caved to pressure from the Suits and wrote a record to the Record Labels criteria. They tried to capture what HT was (& failed, even regressed), & thus cementing in some peoples minds an idea of what LP is supposed to be but which is ultimately false.

I have no love for Colision Course either.

MTM was about half & half in terms of well written vs poorly written. WID, Given Up, very poor songs. TLTGYA, HHH - fantastic songs. The spirit of the latter being what I was hoping they'd take forward, & and thankfully they did.

The songwriting on ATS is just superior start to finish (though I still think TLTGYA is the best single song they've written). Creative structures & sounds (that's not even debateable BTW), solid lyrics across the board except for a bit here & there but LP have never been master lyricists. The album just flows start to finish. It's a very natural progression from HT and Renimation. It's pure LP, there's pretty much no outside influence. In other words it's the complete opposite of Meteora.

Who cares if there's no heavy guitars? Seriously. Heavy does not automatically equal good, though judging from many posts here that's exactly what some of you think.

Make no mistake, I am not claiming ATS is the best album ever. It's not perfect and there are several albums from other bands I'd take over it, I'm saying it's the best LP album.

I'm also not putting this post down as a blanket statement for anyone who doesn't like the ATS. Not liking it is completely fine, it's not going to be for everyone. It's aimed at the "OMG this isn't Meteora so it sucks!" crowd that seems to be rampant on this board.

Pixie Ray said:

Has anyone read the interview they did with Kerrang in the Aug 28th, issue 1327? Please, before passing any judgement on my post READ IT. Yes, I am dissapointed in the new album but hey I can get over it and hope and pray they are going to go back to their old stuff on their next album. What has REALLY PISSED ME OFF is that article. Basically, it makes it sound like they stuck their fingers up at their fans.

No no no, you're all wrong there dude. They flipped off the "fans" who think the fact they bought a CD or gig ticket that they can dictate to the band what kind of music they should be writing. Reading your post, you would fall into that category.

They wanted to do something different and couldn't give a shit what anyone else thought.

Damn straight, & more power too them. They shouldn't give a shit what the fans want them to write. If you like it good, enjoy the ride while it lasts. If you don't like it fine, you can get off whenever you want.

That really upset me. After all, without their fans where the hell would they be?

This is the attitude that I find mindboggling.
It doesn't matter and it's very arrogant to assume you can hold the "where would you be without us" card over their head to try to control them. They can and do show their appreciation in other ways.

If you became a fan when they were doing what they wanted, why should they stop doing what they want after that point? To keep you spending money on them?
If you answered "Yes" to that then you actually want them to sell out. That's "sell out" in it's true form -- The sacrifice of artistic integrity for monetary gain.

Yes, you are the artists and should be allowed to do what you like with your music. But shouldn't they also consider others, especially their fans when they are the ones supporting them, listening to them, cheering them on?

No! They shouldn't consider anyone else. At all. And that paragraph is totally contradictory. "Yeah, do what you want, just as long as it's what I want you to do."

Buying their CD doesn't give you an in to tell them what to do, nor does it obligate the band to cater to your whims.
Full stop. Period. End of fucking story.

Instead, they sounded like selfish egotistical twats that wanted to do what they wanted to do and couldn't give a shit on what others thought.

They must be selfish and controlling if they want this kind of career, otherwise they'll have other people (fans, The Label) interfering at every turn and the end piece will not accurately represent them *cough* Meteora *cough*.

At one point they said they wanted to get away from the Linkin Park persona as much as possible. Why??? That is who they are! Thats what the fans frickin love!! Thats what brought out this new genre of music all those years ago. I dont understand why they are ashamed.

1. No, they want to get away from what some people think is LP's persona. Big difference.
2. Again no. It's part of who they are. Not the entirety of who they are.
3. That's what some fans love. I for one value artistic integrity and pushing the envelope over keeping the fans happy. es, even if that means they write stuff I don't like. As long as it's from their heart I'll respect it.
4. Linkin Park did NOT bring about that genre. It already existed.
5. They are NOT ashamed of their past records and they state this continuously in their interviews. It's as simple as the old style presents no challenge and is very boring for them to write.

----------------------------
I'll pose a question to everyone clamouring for LP to go back to writing their old stuff:

Are you the same person you were 10 years ago? Do you do all the same things? Think the same things? View the world in EXACTLY the same way?

If you answered "yes" then I'm very sad that you have not managed any personal growth in all that time.

If you answered "no", then why the hell do you expect anyone else to? Let alone a group of people who have travelled the world several times having many experiences, both together and individually?

I am planning on writing an article about this. Would anyone object me taking some of their comments as quotes? And if you have anything else to add feel free. I'm not here to piss anyone off and bitch out Linkin Park, I'm still a fan, still love them, just hope to God they show SOME appreciation towards us and get their head out of the clouds.

The only people with their head in the clouds are people like you who think Mike should ring them up and ask how you want the next batch of songs to be constructed, and then take it as a personal affront when that doesn't happen. And then have the arrogance & hypocrisy to call the band "selfish, egotistical twats".

This is why I don't come here very often. And if this is where the LPU is headed.... yeesh.

Thank Jesus, Allah, Buddah AND Superman for the LPA, LPL, etc.

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Permalink Reply by Erik Paul Michael on September 28, 2010 at 11:33am

Jon Pultz said:

Obviously, you have very little music appreciation, because A thousand Suns IS NOT MUSIC! It's a bunch of soundbites thrown together over low budget synth beats. Yes, you are correct in saying that Meteora did get a bit repetitive, but the point was that it was something new, something different. No one had heard it before.
I can respect your opinion on the albums, and I'm not saying you have to like it, but what I am saying is that you should respect others opinions as well. You had no problem coming on here and tearing apart other people's opinions, and that just isn't right. PEOPLE THINK DIFFERENTLY FROM YOU! GET OVER IT! You had a total a blatant disregard for anyone's opinion. You made some very good points, yes, but you didn't go about it in a good manner. How can you hope to have people listen to you if you don't treat others with respect.

ATS is new, i definitely haven't heard anything like this album before and it can't be compared to mainstream music if you actually take the time and listen to it without pre-conceived notions of how the album should sound. Secondly, Pixie clearly exposed the errors in people's responses in this Discussion. Sure he/she was blatant about it, but when it comes to all the false facts and ignorance displayed, id be just as frustrated as him.

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Permalink Reply by SajiNoKami on September 28, 2010 at 2:51pm

Obviously, you have very little music appreciation, because A thousand Suns IS NOT MUSIC!
I believe it is. Art is subjective.

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Permalink Reply by Karla Knuutti on September 29, 2010 at 3:00am

What the...??!!?

I come here to this forum to talk with people who LIKE Linkin Park, not to listen music snobs who can't listen anything new!

And what's with all this "OOH THEY SUCKKKK THESE DAYS I'M A TRUE FAN SO I KNOW" rant?! If you don't like it don't listen it. It's just that easy.

ps. If something sucks it's my english.. :(

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Permalink Reply by Jon Pultz on September 29, 2010 at 7:24am

If you read the one of my posts earlier it would've explained why we are here. And most (not all but most) are not music snobs who refuse to listen to anything new. We love listening to something new, hence why we started listening to linkin park in the first place. But you can't listen to something new if it isn't good!!! This isn't good music! It literally is a bunch of sound bites over synth beats, it's not real music. I took the time to listen to the whole album, as I didn't want to make a judgment right off the bat. The rapping portions from mike were not even good, they were just generic rap songs, nothing new.

Karla asdf said:

What the...??!!?

I come here to this forum to talk with people who LIKE Linkin Park, not to listen music snobs who can't listen anything new!

And what's with all this "OOH THEY SUCKKKK THESE DAYS I'M A TRUE FAN SO I KNOW" rant?! If you don't like it don't listen it. It's just that easy.

ps. If something sucks it's my english.. :(

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Permalink Reply by Cillian on September 29, 2010 at 8:34pm

Jon Pultz said:

Obviously, you have very little music appreciation, because A thousand Suns IS NOT MUSIC!

1. RE: Music appreciation - I guess you missed the list of bands that I actively listen to in that giant wall of text of mine:
Metallica, Tool, Opeth, Joe Satriani, Rodrigo Y Gabriela, John Butler Trio, Apocalyptica, Led Zeppelin, Christy Moore, Puscifer, A Perfect Circle.

I could list others, but I think you'll find pretty much every one of those bands are incredibly varied within their own catalogs while also being very different from each other.

Out of curiosity, who else do you listen to?

It's a bunch of soundbites thrown together over low budget synth beats. Yes, you are correct in saying that Meteora did get a bit repetitive, but the point was that it was something new, something different. No one had heard it before.

Actually anyone who had already heard Hybrid Theory had heard Meteora (aka, HT part 2). It does the same thing as HT with a couple new sounds (Japanese flute, reversed accoustic, BTH), but on the whole it wasn't anything new, like I said before, it was a regression in songwriting.

I can respect your opinion on the albums, and I'm not saying you have to like it, but what I am saying is that you should respect others opinions as well. You had no problem coming on here and tearing apart other people's opinions, and that just isn't right. PEOPLE THINK DIFFERENTLY FROM YOU! GET OVER IT! You had a total a blatant disregard for anyone's opinion.

I guess you also didn't see this in the previous post:
"I'm also not putting this post down as a blanket statement for anyone who doesn't like the ATS. Not liking it is completely fine, it's not going to be for everyone."
or
"If you like it good, enjoy the ride while it lasts. If you don't like it fine, you can get off whenever you want."

So yes, I'm well aware people think differently to me and every has an opinion & a right to voice it. And you're right, I had no problem tearing appart opinions.
What you seem to be missing is those particular "opinions" were mostly just attacking the band, calling them "selfish, egotistical twats" if I recall correctly, and not actually backing up their dislike of ATS with a logical argument, preferring to fall back on stuff like "THIS SUCKS! GO BAK TO HT STYLE", "THIS ISN'T MUSIC!" and my favourite, "SELLOUTS!".
For the most part they criticise ATS for what it's not instead of for what it is.

I'll respect an opinion that's rational and well thought out, like I have with many that disagreed with me over various topics through the years. I won't respect irrational tantrums & personally attacking the band simply because they did something one doesn't like.

You made some very good points, yes, but you didn't go about it in a good manner. How can you hope to have people listen to you if you don't treat others with respect.

Yes, treat others as you wish to be treated. The thing is I'm not the one initiating these opinions, I'm responding to others that are disrespectful. That combined with frustration from seeing so many thoughtless tantrums is going to be a little agressive.

Jon Pultz said:

This isn't good music! It literally is a bunch of sound bites over synth beats, it's not real music. I took the time to listen to the whole album, as I didn't want to make a judgment right off the bat.

1. Do you know what the word "literally" means? Because that sentence is factually inaccurate. There's a hell of a lot more, and more musical instruments, to ATS than synth beats & sound bites. Vocal harmonies abound, layered tribal drums that will take multiple people to play live, piano, bass, guitar, on and on.
2. It is real music. That's not debateable. You might not like it but that's another story.
3. Good music is subjective. But you can break music down technically to see how well it's put together. ATS is technically better put together than past albums.

I suggest you sit down and propperly listen to it without other distractions, start to finish. I've already seen several people here and on other forums say they hated it at first but after a few propper listens came to think it was great.

If you still don't like it then, fair enough. But if all you have to offer in the way is criticism is gross generalisations and "this isn't real music!" then I can't really take that seriously.

Karla asdf said:

What the...??!!?
I come here to this forum to talk with people who LIKE Linkin Park, not to listen music snobs who can't listen anything new!
And what's with all this "OOH THEY SUCKKKK THESE DAYS I'M A TRUE FAN SO I KNOW" rant?! If you don't like it don't listen it. It's just that easy.
ps. If something sucks it's my english.. :(

I would recommend http://www.lpassociation.com and http://lplive.net/ for good fan forums and LP news.

And don't worry, your english is good. :)

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Permalink Reply by Glen Wilson Sutherland on September 30, 2010 at 2:51pm

thats just changing the subject, i obviously didn't think it out the last few lines tell you that
but i have changed the curse word =]
just for the record any fan thats listened to M2M and anything after that has heard all the curse words before (y)

Dex said:

You know what Glen, that was almost a good argument, until you lowered yourself by swearing on a forum full of children, that bans profanity.
Completely sad how you berate Linkin Park for their actions, yet your own are obviously not very well thought through, or are just selfish.
Your opinion of the album doesn't really matter when you dumb it down unnecessarily, it just become trolling.

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Permalink Reply by Hailey Lindquist on September 30, 2010 at 3:30pm

1) Just because they have a new album out doesnt mean that their never gunna play their old stuff ever again at a concert. I can bet you my miserable life for that.

2) Don't blame LP for their new style. Its all Rick Rubin's falt! He's the one that changed them! Thats why the last 2 albums didnt sound like HT or Meteora.

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