I hope this won't get censored, cause what i am about to say, could be quite a hit in the face to some Linkin Park fans or, if they even care, for Linkin Park themselve.


I have listened to Linkin Park for 9 Years now. While the first four to five years it was Linkin Park almost exclusively i moved on after having excessively listend to every snippet I could get of them. I still listen to them sometimes, when new stuff is coming out or just to remember the "old days". 

Linkin Park has never been one of these bands who come and go fast. Although beeing pretty mainstream they kept developing musically, also apart from their music, for example dome design-projects and of course designing everything themselves. 

But still it is no question Linkin Park has never been groundbreaking or musically advanced as other musicians like let's say The Beatles. Why compare them to The Beatles? Well there are many sophisticated musicians, but of course everyone has his own preference. Still almost everyone will agree, The Beatles were groundbreaking and musically sophisticated. It's not like I want Linkin Park to be more like the Beatles but as I moved on to other Artists I asked myself, why doesn't Linkin Park doesn't make better music? What I listen to now is Tom Waits, Peter Gabriel, Adam Green, The Beatles, Jaques Brel, Regina Spektor, to name my favorites. 

What do these Artists give me what Linkin Park does not have? Its not only the kind of music that is different, it also is the character is has, the feeling it transports, the fusion of lyrics, voices and instruments that get something right Linkin Park doesn't. 

But why have I, arrogantly watching my past favorite, not turned my back on them, and why do I still hope maybe they would evolve and improve. They have improved, Minutes to Midnight is an improvement for me but what im talking about is somethig more, signs of musical genius. The reason I still have not given up my hope is because they have already shown that, glimpses of it, they have show, they have the potential for musical genius in them but it is hard to find. 


Examples:

- Kenji (Shinoda)

- Session(Hahn)

- High Voltage/Dedicated (especially the drums)

- Leave out all the rest(Verse)

- P5hng Me A*wy (electronic fusion)


Most of the time Mike Shinoda was strongly involved, also Hahn, the drums also had some big scenes. Linkin Park has pretty good versse from time to time too. Leave out all the rest, Crawling, Somewhere I belong, its always Chester, who has a voice I cant complain about at all. But a good voice is not everything. Other Artists who dont sing better technically, still do it better. Why? It is because they can offer more behind their voice. I good verse is not only a beautifully sung verse, it has lyrics that get a complex message to the point in simple but elegant words, pronounced appropriately and filled with deep meaning acoustically which is only possible if the vocalist has a deep understanding of what he is singing and - best case - the idiomatic skill to have written the lyrics by himself.  

Chester has a beautiful voice but he always seems to me to only express his feelings superficially. He has grown up under difficult circumstances and the lyrics seem to express much of it but he has never sung about some kind of conclusion, an understanding he has gotten in spite of people who do not know his situation first hand. Something more than just telling, what he feels but also what he thinks about it. I cant claim him doing it. Its his decision  - or maybe its not. Maybe he cant express what he thinks about it intellectually. This is what I think. Chester Bennington is a weak spot of Linkin Park because he hardly developes. Actually from HT to MTM he has hardly improved. Not technically, but he was good there anyway but neither in the subtle skill to express a message perfectly acoustically.

While Shinoda doesnt sing as well technically he pronounces his character in a song better when (rarely) he sings than Chester(f.e P5hng Me A*wy live). This becomes really obvious when he raps. On his solo song Kenji he finds just the right words to perfectly construct the scenes his grandparents experienced during World War 2, the atmosphere and psychological situation of the people. Also Cigarettes and Right Now are pretty well concerning 'authenticity' and originality.  

Chester has never been a really good songwriter. It was alright in the past but he doensnt keep up with Mike. His solo album was not too bad but it was not creative at all. 


So what I feel about Linkin Park when Im looking forward is more the Shinoda-Linkin Park, and when I doubt their potential its more the Chester-Linkin Park.  

I wouldnt say they should get rid of Chester, he is a part of the whole thing and I dont know if they would keep up as a band without Chester although Im sure MIke would do something on his own. 


But I have a strong feeling Chester holds LP back from where it could go with somebody more qualified.


I excited to see if A Thousand Suns will (hopefully) prove different.


Please excuse my own idiomatic missteps because im German.

Tags: Chester, potential, weak

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@Elizabeth:

That was aimed at Blazing Eagle, not you.


Elizabeth said:


Michael Schumacher said:
You don't seem to sense any kind of subtle differences, the way you argue nothing better can be hoped for

Ah, he who argues for the sake of arguing and not to gain perspective or hear other opinions that his initial argument demanded. There is little hope for you too, my stubborn friend.

You've somehow managed to miss my point entirely. Which is alright, because I agree to absolutely disagree.

I know right?!? I think Michael is just arguing for no reason just because he hates Linkin Park. Hey Michael, here is the thing. If you really do not like Linkin Park anymore just don't listen to them. Nobody is forcing you to listen to them so just go listen to any other band but do not try to convince people that Chester is the weak point of Linkin Park. I think there is no weak poin in Linkin Park and they are just perfect this way. I actually had to run 2 days before the release day of the new album to pre order it because i loved the songs "The Catalyst" and "Waiting for the end" and I just wanted to listen to the rest of the songs and I loved them. But to be honest, nothing can top Meteora, and Hybrid Theory. That's not the point though. The point is: Liking and/or hating Linkin Park and any other band/artist is a matter of opinion and should never be posted just because that person doesn't like the band. If you don't like a specific band, then keep your opinion to yourself and don't go post threads and criticizes just because you don't like the artist/band because other people like him/them/her.
Is it actually possible for you to recognize anything between liking and hating? Any more sophisticated opinion you can imagine that cannot be forced into one of your two or three drawers?

I do actually like Linkin Park in some ways though their are not my favorite artists. But I can even be critical with my favorite Artists. Just because you criticize something in a specific way, doesn't mean you necessarily dislike every aspect but thats probably to abstract for you to grasp:-)
Blazin Eagle said:
I 100% agree with Elizabeth. You can not remove a either from Linkin Park or you won't have Linkin Park. And Michael, so you basically want Chester to rap? That was the main reason of forming Linkin Park. combining the rap of Mike with the metal screaming of Chester to create a Nu Metal Band. If you just think Chester's metal-singing is bad, then you should criticize every metal Band out there.
Wow man, you need to seriously stop posting, mainly because you've been missing the point this entire topic with each of your posts.
1, He never said he didn't like Linkin Park.
2, What has he complained about? He's simply stated that Chester hasn't changed his style much.
3, He never said to remove Chester from Linkin Park
4, People develop their whole lives, even if it isn't physically. You obviously aren't that well developed, mentally, if you can't figure that out.
5, Hahn is a very good DJ, but there are quite a few out there with way better scratches and mixes than him.
6, There are many different styles of playing the bass guitar, as well as every musical instrument. Anyone can change the way they play if they try,
7, He never asked Chester to rap. Come on.
8, You can't compare Linkin Park to true Metal bands, due to the fact that they've never been anywhere near metal. The most they ever were, was Heavy Progessive Rock with a cobination of Rap.
9,. Saying you don't like someone's new style doesn't make you a phony. I'd much rather listen a lot of artists older albums due to their older styles. Disturbed, System Of A Down, Godsmack, Metallica, etc. All these bands gradually changed their styles throughout the years. I never said I didn't like any of their newer stuff, but it doesn't make you phony for considering the new style unfitting.
10, Nirvana and System Of A Down weren't metal either. Please, brush up on your music genres.
11, The fact that I got to 10 means I'm just gonna stop now. I'm tired of pointing out the flaws in your 'debate.'

Getting back to the topic on hand-- I do understand very well what you are getting at about Chester potentially holding the band back. But this is the case with many bands in history, and the frontman is the frontman, and that's what happens. I don't see anything changing to this band, but I see them continuing their trend of style changeups and success for many years into the future.

The main point is, they may not be groundbreaking like some artists have in the past, but they still have a winning formula that is getting them fans, shows, CDs, and years of longevity. So to quote, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Blazin Eagle said:


Elizabeth said:


Michael Schumacher said:
You don't seem to sense any kind of subtle differences, the way you argue nothing better can be hoped for

Ah, he who argues for the sake of arguing and not to gain perspective or hear other opinions that his initial argument demanded. There is little hope for you too, my stubborn friend.

You've somehow managed to miss my point entirely. Which is alright, because I agree to absolutely disagree.

I know right?!? I think Michael is just arguing for no reason just because he hates Linkin Park. Hey Michael, here is the thing. If you really do not like Linkin Park anymore just don't listen to them. Nobody is forcing you to listen to them so just go listen to any other band but do not try to convince people that Chester is the weak point of Linkin Park. I think there is no weak poin in Linkin Park and they are just perfect this way. I actually had to run 2 days before the release day of the new album to pre order it because i loved the songs "The Catalyst" and "Waiting for the end" and I just wanted to listen to the rest of the songs and I loved them. But to be honest, nothing can top Meteora, and Hybrid Theory. That's not the point though. The point is: Liking and/or hating Linkin Park and any other band/artist is a matter of opinion and should never be posted just because that person doesn't like the band. If you don't like a specific band, then keep your opinion to yourself and don't go post threads and criticizes just because you don't like the artist/band because other people like him/them/her.
Oh jesus christ.
If he isn't allowed to explain what he thinks is wrong with the band (critiquing) then you aren't allowed to explain what you think is so great about the band (jockeying). Everyone has an opinion and can say whatever the hell they want, and if you don't like what he's posting, don't read it or reply in this topic. Simple enough, right? Even for you?

I just love how hypocritical some people are. They wanna talk down on others because they think they are wrong but they are too blind in their heated debate to realize how foolish they are making themselves look.

And to all of those who simply reply: If you don't like them then don't listen to them.
Think about that the next time you start ragging on another band's board, like you usually do.
To all the people I pissed off, I did my job. Thanks for the support!


G Squires said:
Blazin Eagle said:
I 100% agree with Elizabeth. You can not remove a either from Linkin Park or you won't have Linkin Park. And Michael, so you basically want Chester to rap? That was the main reason of forming Linkin Park. combining the rap of Mike with the metal screaming of Chester to create a Nu Metal Band. If you just think Chester's metal-singing is bad, then you should criticize every metal Band out there.
Wow man, you need to seriously stop posting, mainly because you've been missing the point this entire topic with each of your posts.
1, He never said he didn't like Linkin Park.
2, What has he complained about? He's simply stated that Chester hasn't changed his style much.
3, He never said to remove Chester from Linkin Park
4, People develop their whole lives, even if it isn't physically. You obviously aren't that well developed, mentally, if you can't figure that out.
5, Hahn is a very good DJ, but there are quite a few out there with way better scratches and mixes than him.
6, There are many different styles of playing the bass guitar, as well as every musical instrument. Anyone can change the way they play if they try,
7, He never asked Chester to rap. Come on.
8, You can't compare Linkin Park to true Metal bands, due to the fact that they've never been anywhere near metal. The most they ever were, was Heavy Progessive Rock with a cobination of Rap.
9,. Saying you don't like someone's new style doesn't make you a phony. I'd much rather listen a lot of artists older albums due to their older styles. Disturbed, System Of A Down, Godsmack, Metallica, etc. All these bands gradually changed their styles throughout the years. I never said I didn't like any of their newer stuff, but it doesn't make you phony for considering the new style unfitting.
10, Nirvana and System Of A Down weren't metal either. Please, brush up on your music genres.
11, The fact that I got to 10 means I'm just gonna stop now. I'm tired of pointing out the flaws in your 'debate.'

Getting back to the topic on hand-- I do understand very well what you are getting at about Chester potentially holding the band back. But this is the case with many bands in history, and the frontman is the frontman, and that's what happens. I don't see anything changing to this band, but I see them continuing their trend of style changeups and success for many years into the future.

The main point is, they may not be groundbreaking like some artists have in the past, but they still have a winning formula that is getting them fans, shows, CDs, and years of longevity. So to quote, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Blazin Eagle said:


Elizabeth said:


Michael Schumacher said:
You don't seem to sense any kind of subtle differences, the way you argue nothing better can be hoped for

Ah, he who argues for the sake of arguing and not to gain perspective or hear other opinions that his initial argument demanded. There is little hope for you too, my stubborn friend.

You've somehow managed to miss my point entirely. Which is alright, because I agree to absolutely disagree.

I know right?!? I think Michael is just arguing for no reason just because he hates Linkin Park. Hey Michael, here is the thing. If you really do not like Linkin Park anymore just don't listen to them. Nobody is forcing you to listen to them so just go listen to any other band but do not try to convince people that Chester is the weak point of Linkin Park. I think there is no weak poin in Linkin Park and they are just perfect this way. I actually had to run 2 days before the release day of the new album to pre order it because i loved the songs "The Catalyst" and "Waiting for the end" and I just wanted to listen to the rest of the songs and I loved them. But to be honest, nothing can top Meteora, and Hybrid Theory. That's not the point though. The point is: Liking and/or hating Linkin Park and any other band/artist is a matter of opinion and should never be posted just because that person doesn't like the band. If you don't like a specific band, then keep your opinion to yourself and don't go post threads and criticizes just because you don't like the artist/band because other people like him/them/her.
Oh jesus christ.
If he isn't allowed to explain what he thinks is wrong with the band (critiquing) then you aren't allowed to explain what you think is so great about the band (jockeying). Everyone has an opinion and can say whatever the hell they want, and if you don't like what he's posting, don't read it or reply in this topic. Simple enough, right? Even for you?

I just love how hypocritical some people are. They wanna talk down on others because they think they are wrong but they are too blind in their heated debate to realize how foolish they are making themselves look.

And to all of those who simply reply: If you don't like them then don't listen to them.
Think about that the next time you start ragging on another band's board, like you usually do.
To all the people I pissed off, I did my job. Thanks for the support!

You dude don't even know what i mean since i am not a good descriptive writer but whatever. I just wanted to say that chester did develop just listen to let's say Runaway or any other songs from Hybrid Theory and/or Meteora and listen to burning in the skies or blackout. You will find a big difference which means he really did change his style. Maybe to a better style in some people's opinions (I think his new style is better) and maybe to worse in other people's opinions.. And When I said "Do you want chester to rap?" it was like a figure of speech i never really meant that chester should rap and Linkin Park really did reach to a little bit of Metal in some Chester Verses. They really did.
Michael said the Chester was holding back LP but i just think that Chester is not holding back LP he is developing with them. And my first post was just a joke i was messing around. Right now I ain't Jkin.

I was also just saying that if he doesn't like LP he can just go listen to any other band and stop complaining. Please try to understand what I mean because i am not a good descriptive writer.


Michael Schumacher said:
Well you are so stupid and anti-open minded it wouldn't make sense explaining anything to you any further. For you LP is like a God - infallible, invincible.

That's a mean and downright silly thing to say and assume. I liked your post because it was well thought out even if i don't agree with it. Obviously you've thought hard and well about your topic and it shows. People thinking LP is a third rate musician doesn't bother me because it is an opinion. And yes, this place isn't a platform for worshiping the band but it isn't a platform to insult the band because you're most likely not going to find a lot of supporters who will agree with you simply because this is an LP fan forum.What else do you really expect? Surely you're not that naive? Fan is short for fanatic. And people are very fanatical. So saying that someone who disagrees with you on all points and loves the band equates them to God and things they are infallible and invincible is frankly stupid, idiotic and condescending considering where you are. I love the band's music and disagree with you on a few points but its not because i think the band is a God and can do no wrong. Assuming something like that is just stereotyping and no different from the people who whine for the sake of whining. Liking the band does not = thinking of them as a god.

I myself don't get the big deal with The Beatles. They bore me to tears. But that is just my opinion. I do not agree they were groundbreaking. Assuming everybody else shares that opinion is a common mistake. There is no such thing as a perfect human being. There is no such thing as a perfect art that appeases everybody. And all those artist you threw down their name happily as an example of great evolving artist all have their share of post where people have the opposite opinion similar to what you wrote here about LP. But that is okay. One man's meat is another man's poison. That is art for you. It is heavily subjective. And i think your failing of understanding that is the weak part of you post. I appreciated how well you explained you opinion but throwing insults at people who disagree with you on an LP forum is stupid. I don't care for Tool. But i won't go on a fan form on the band's site and write down my opinion of why i hate them because first of all, what a waste of my precious time i only allocate to things that are important to me. Secondly, it's rude at best to the fans there even though i might be allowed to write whatever i want, it doesn't mean it is okay and they would rip my post apart anyways and i wouldn't blame them. That is their sanctuary.. (not saying you hate LP but you get the point.)
I really only have two comments in response to this. One is that you usually can't really judge how groundbreaking a band really is only 10 years after they come on the scene. Using your comparison to The Beatles, people certainly knew at the time that they were hugely and massively popular, but it's only in restrospect that we understand how much influence they had. In my opinion, this album is the first time that the creativity and musical sophistication that was always sort of lurking and hinted at in previous albums has been fully realized.

I would also say that Chester Bennington's voice is a vital and integral part of the band's sound. I don't think his singing is superficial at all - it's raw and passionate and, even though there's been a bit of damage to his gorgeous voice, somehow that doesn't take anything away from it's beauty. I love Mike's voice too and I'm really glad to hear him doing more singing, but I think it would be a terrible mistake to downplay Chester's role in the band.
I Think arguing with such a person that calls people "anti-open minded" and "For you LP is like a God" simply because they disagree with his opinion is just useless. He is arguing for no reason because he doesn't really like the band and trying to find anything to hate on the band (don't even reply saying you missed my point or anything like that crap). Basically, Linkin Park can never be Linkin Park if they made Chester's parts of Mike's parts less. Just a tip: Next time when you want to argue and rant about a specific artist/band, don't do it on their fan forums.
Ok... well I don't know where you get your information from, but I would go read a few interviews if you actually want to know about LP's songwriting process.
Mike Shinoda does not and never has controlled LP's direction, the band make decisions as a whole, Mike just guides them when they get lost.

Also, A Thousand Suns is brilliant, and heavily influenced by Chester and where he wanted the band to go musically.
Give it a listen, I'm sure you will change your mind about Chester 'holding them back'.

I'm sorry some people have labelled you as a hater, I read your entire post, you CLEARLY were not saying that you don't like Linkin Park.
Thank you for being able to express you opinion without flaming, Michael. It is appreciated.
and what would you say about ATS...
I give ATS a C+. It's definitely a big step but predominantly in a different musical direction than concerning sophistication. Neither I see Chester having made a significantly larger contribution to the record than before.
i think its not right to campare Linkin Park to other artist because LP has its own style of music. their music only shows how they play with their creativity. every artist is cool in their own way its just up to the people if they will appreciate it. but that's ur view i respect that.

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