Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Cillian on August 12, 2010 at 1:59pm

i think it's a great song. i love the way it doesn't have a clear verse or chorus and how the music is constantly changing.
The vocal line in the first half is a bit repetitive, but the way the music progresses and builds offsets that repetition.
I hope the rest of the album pushes their songwriting like this has.

I have to facepalm and then laugh at people calling "sellout!" when they such a hard on for Meteora.
The Catalyst is 5:42 in lenght, has well written lyrics and has no formulaic radio-friendly structure but instead an ever changing form. How in sweet fuck is that a money grab?

Meteora on the other hand... every song;
-is around 3 minutes long
-has universal "so-vague-literally-anyone-can-relate" lyrics
-formulaic intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus structure
-the life was beaten out of it by Don Gilmore overproducing it and making them re-write everything a thousand times
Any song from Meteora could be a single i.e. It's fucking perfect for radio play. And it was intentionally built that way at the behest of the label.

Netanel Barasch said:

I personally think its a good thing, changing your sound, Metallica allthough considerd very good has songs that sound so much alike from one to another, it gets boring.

You haven't done your Metallica homework, they spent about 15 years away from their roots experimenting with different styles of music including blues, southern rock, grunge, country and working with a Symphony Orchestra.

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Permalink Reply by michael on August 12, 2010 at 6:02pm

Yea that was my point by people tryen to say there sell outs, pretty dumb lol. And metallica, yes they did do that but to the mainstream fan there songs sounded the same for a long time, especially there hit songs so I understand what hese tryen to say, kinda like all of hybrid n meteora. But metallica def has done more then that n I'm glad lp is toooo

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Permalink Reply by Frederic Evans on August 13, 2010 at 12:32am

Quite a few songs on meteora are nowhere near radio friendly.... Session, Nobody's listening, a few others... they wouldnt sell, at all... Session is too close to industrial, wouldnt sell to the US market... Nobody's listening isnt "rap enough" for Americans either...

My point, and the point that everybody is trying to make is they have done everything to "sell out" M2M was a money grab if I ever did see one... Lets throw a few curses into the songs to get the parental advisory label, so people will think were grown up and w/e...

Hybird Theory, Reanimation and Meteora were all very different albums with very different sounds... But they all still sounded like Linkin Park... Each one built upon each other.

With M2M they did a complete overhaul of their image. They went from street style art to clean cut indie lookin emo/punk... changed their logos, changed their stage shows, and changed their tours to reflect how album sales were in different countries. they changed themselves... They got major s$#^ for meteora and HT from the critics and music lovers in general... If they were really "doing what their hearts led them to do" they would have stuck a middle finger to what people wanted them to do and did what they did best. It wasnt an experimentation into something new, it was changing themselves(M2M) .If they feel differently I respect that, and if they say it is the way they say it is then we'll have to accept that because only they'll know... Artist always try to get away to find themselves, when in reality you need to go back to where you started to truely find out what you are and remind yourself of the struggle and what inspired you, so you can write from the perspective of what youve been through and how you've matured since that issue or time in your life...

No longer does LP stand for the kids with no place to run, hiding in the shadows waiting for the sun... Now they stand for the douchehole hipsters at starbucks looking at me funny because im using a dell rather than the latest macbook. The ones who go with the popular trends. The ones who apparently love linkin park, but hate anything that wasnt released after meteora... The ones who think reanimation is a CD of the same exact music and nothing new, The ones who say Hybird theory was crap. These are the people they are attracting now, and Im wrong? I love everything LP has put out, with the only slight exception being M2M where I cant deal with half the songs up there because they lack the depth and the style and the soul the other albums had... A few of the songs have soul... a few, but the rest of them seem lifeless and emotionless. Basically im trying to say you dont have to change your sound from who you are to truly experiment and change... Red hot chili peppers make different music now from when they first started, BUT THEY DID NOT LEAVE THEIR SIGNATURE SOUND AND STYLE BEHIND... They are a good example of a band maturing... LP though... I honestly cant tell if they are what they say they are or if they are just another sell out band, and that's not a good thing.



I bet Half the people on this board missed that song reference that last paragraph. But that's okay... I dont claim to know the band or what they truly are thinking. Just expressing my opinion.

Cillian said:

i think it's a great song. i love the way it doesn't have a clear verse or chorus and how the music is constantly changing.
The vocal line in the first half is a bit repetitive, but the way the music progresses and builds offsets that repetition.
I hope the rest of the album pushes their songwriting like this has.

I have to facepalm and then laugh at people calling "sellout!" when they such a hard on for Meteora.
The Catalyst is 5:42 in lenght, has well written lyrics and has no formulaic radio-friendly structure but instead an ever changing form. How in sweet fuck is that a money grab?

Meteora on the other hand... every song;
-is around 3 minutes long
-has universal "so-vague-literally-anyone-can-relate" lyrics
-formulaic intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus structure
-the life was beaten out of it by Don Gilmore overproducing it and making them re-write everything a thousand times
Any song from Meteora could be a single i.e. It's fucking perfect for radio play. And it was intentionally built that way at the behest of the label.

Netanel Barasch said:

I personally think its a good thing, changing your sound, Metallica allthough considerd very good has songs that sound so much alike from one to another, it gets boring.

You haven't done your Metallica homework, they spent about 15 years away from their roots experimenting with different styles of music including blues, southern rock, grunge, country and working with a Symphony Orchestra.

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Permalink Reply by Netanel Barasch on August 13, 2010 at 5:00am

Well i feel kinda stupid, i just listened to song again and read the lyrics, not my favriot but good as usual... its not the lyrics i just don't like this song as much cuse its abit too electronic for my taste.

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Permalink Reply by michael on August 13, 2010 at 11:46am

No ur missing the point here, they are doing what they want to do, not selling out. If you think meteora and hybrid theory didnt have SELL OUT songs, or radio play on them your insane, Hybrid theory had 4 top charting singles and could have had more. Mikes raps were changes from the original 9 song demo as you can see when you listen to the demos, they made it more commercial. That was a commercial record or a sell out if you wanted to call it. The album wasnt even given any real credit by the critics, came after Limp Bizkit and Korn smashing the effort and WE THE FANS made it one of the biggest rock albums of the year. Meteora was the most successful album on the rock charts ever and that is based soley on radio play and the song SESSION that you say couldnt be successful or on the radio was nominated for a grammy for Gods sake and went on movies and TV shows. Even this album didnt get great reviews and was considered as hybrid theory 2 and the last of the numetal rap era of music. Again WE THE FANS made it what it was. Billboard called it a READY MADE CROWD PLEASER lol. OK MY POINT these would be so much closer to sell out albums and songs.

M2M has made many fans upset, LP did it because they wanted to do it and explore new areas as they have gotten older. If they wanted to sell out, another Hybrid Theory would be scooped up by fans and hit platinum easily. This route WITH Catalyst and this new albums direction is the same thing, experimenting with new styles and doing something different and what they want to do, the exact OPPOSITE OF SELLLING OUT.

And if they did play the same Hybrid Theory sound I personally would love it, there my favorite albums by far the first 3. But I do like and appreciate what they are putting out now and with M2M and can hear the same MESSAGE OF KIDS WITH NO PLACE TO RUN. I escape into there music all the time, its just not an entire album like HT or Meteora, they are not kids anymore dealing with child abuse, growing up, drugs etc they have matured and there style has changed with there age, but still keep there LP edge on some songs and the overall vibe of an album has the LP feel. People will love or hate M2M and will Love or Hate A thousand Suns, but old LP is dead, deal with it and just love LP if your a fan or play the 3 albums that you loved so much, but go to a live show because they still kill it LIVE.

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Permalink Reply by Cillian on August 13, 2010 at 2:29pm

Michael speaks the truth^^.

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Permalink Reply by Frederic Evans on August 13, 2010 at 7:08pm

Your missing my point entirely. Like I said perfect example, red hot chili peppers. They changed their sound, but didnt change their style. They didnt change their image, their lyricism w/e... Though their sound has matured from stuff like aeroplane to stuff like stadium arcadium IT STILL SOUNDS LIKE "THEM", they still have their signature style.

Seriously like I said, to me selling out is when you change your art style, your image... And LP did that, sadly.

Also demos arent final. I personally change w/e music I create, sometimes rewriting the lyrics 10-20 times. I have one remix I did where I literally created 11 final versions, and with alot of other artist I know it's the same story, constantly trying to improve your sound. The demos tell a story dude, and from what I see, Hybird theory was just a very good band getting lucky. Meteora might have bits of "being unoriginal, made for the radio music" . Might, but like I said and I'll reiterate that songs like session, breaking the habit, Nobody's listening were definitely risk. Numb, Somwhere I belong... A tad bit formulaic... but not as much so Figure 09, Dont stay, Hit the Floor and Lying from you.... Same exact song structure... I respect them from wanting to get away from that... But saying so then releasing M2M which is just formulaic songs of a different style and in a different image of what they were to appeal to the trend change in mainstream america... They loose points for that. Hopefully A Thousand Suns will be... you know, REALLY experimental and less emo-pop/punk than M2M. Catalyst sounds like they may finally be actually doing what they said they were doing with M2M... Too bad it sucks and still sounds like M2M pop punk emo-park... I just want them to re-establish the style I fell in love with...

Session may be Grammy nominated but the people have little to nothing to do with Grammy nominations, In the end it's what the people in charge want. Session isnt popular in the US.






michael said:

No ur missing the point here, they are doing what they want to do, not selling out. If you think meteora and hybrid theory didnt have SELL OUT songs, or radio play on them your insane, Hybrid theory had 4 top charting singles and could have had more. Mikes raps were changes from the original 9 song demo as you can see when you listen to the demos, they made it more commercial. That was a commercial record or a sell out if you wanted to call it. The album wasnt even given any real credit by the critics, came after Limp Bizkit and Korn smashing the effort and WE THE FANS made it one of the biggest rock albums of the year. Meteora was the most successful album on the rock charts ever and that is based soley on radio play and the song SESSION that you say couldnt be successful or on the radio was nominated for a grammy for Gods sake and went on movies and TV shows. Even this album didnt get great reviews and was considered as hybrid theory 2 and the last of the numetal rap era of music. Again WE THE FANS made it what it was. Billboard called it a READY MADE CROWD PLEASER lol. OK MY POINT these would be so much closer to sell out albums and songs.

M2M has made many fans upset, LP did it because they wanted to do it and explore new areas as they have gotten older. If they wanted to sell out, another Hybrid Theory would be scooped up by fans and hit platinum easily. This route WITH Catalyst and this new albums direction is the same thing, experimenting with new styles and doing something different and what they want to do, the exact OPPOSITE OF SELLLING OUT.

And if they did play the same Hybrid Theory sound I personally would love it, there my favorite albums by far the first 3. But I do like and appreciate what they are putting out now and with M2M and can hear the same MESSAGE OF KIDS WITH NO PLACE TO RUN. I escape into there music all the time, its just not an entire album like HT or Meteora, they are not kids anymore dealing with child abuse, growing up, drugs etc they have matured and there style has changed with there age, but still keep there LP edge on some songs and the overall vibe of an album has the LP feel. People will love or hate M2M and will Love or Hate A thousand Suns, but old LP is dead, deal with it and just love LP if your a fan or play the 3 albums that you loved so much, but go to a live show because they still kill it LIVE.

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Permalink Reply by michael on August 13, 2010 at 7:36pm

The demos was the style lp wanted to put out, the label changed it and took out much of the rap, and even recommended to not have shinoda rap at all. This was a label making music for the masses, selling out. Saying a band is selling out when there expanding there horizons, changing producers, doing side projects and purposely have left the overdone numetal sound is just incorrect. Your opinion of not liking a style change is one thing, but calling them sellouts is incorrect or using the wrong word period. M2M was far from safe, formulaic or watever bs ur tryen to call it, it was just as solid as hybrid n meteora but almost as if a different band had created it, that was the producer change and the new direction lp wanted, not a radio, mainstream attempt by lp, what do they have to prove in sales or fan recognition at this point. To say M2M is pop punk emo rock as a negative thing lol wat the hell is hybrid n meteora, pop punk, emo mainstream numetal. They get hated on by many rock fans for playing that style. That is what they are and if u think M2M is that as well then they didn't even change. And if u think they made M2M to change with the american trend of mainstream then u don't know lp.

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Permalink Reply by Frederic Evans on August 16, 2010 at 10:46am

You are one of those people who believe it is as the band says it is always. Like I said I have much respect for LP, but M2M is a COMPLETE 180 from what they used to do.

Every Artist sells a bit of their soul to the "devil" to get signed. Ultimately the label tells them how many songs they can have on their album and it's up to the band and the producer to choose the best tracks, the tracks that will sell their sound... Usually the label has ultimate say so over what songs go on the album. LP created the underground I believe not only to make more money, but to give their fans the songs they wanted to hear that couldnt be on the album.

Numetal is nowhere near overdone. That's like saying country or rock is overdone... It's a genre.


LP is big enough where they could do w/e the heck they want. before M2M went into recording, numetal had pretty much died. There was Korn left and LP out of anyone notable, and as far as I know Korn's new albums havent been doing too well... LP had the perfect opportunity to make a career changing decision. Change their sound, or see if they can market themselves the same way as before. Change and *possibly* die like Korn, or Sell out, change the image, change the sound, and change the target audience... In M2M little bits and pieces of the old exist but it is largely overturned in favor of the Emo-pop punk sound. You saying LP has always been this is incorrect. When I say punk im talking about the current punk scene, not the deftones and stuff like that.LP up until M2M had always been largely Numetal.

Also one more piece of evidence in the LP "sold out" argument...


I just want to know how a band like them could forget the sounds in which they rooted their fanbase in and then just change like that and expect us to go with the flow. They were good, unique and had a large diverse Fanbase. Now what are they? Still love their music and respect them... but still






michael said:

The demos was the style lp wanted to put out, the label changed it and took out much of the rap, and even recommended to not have shinoda rap at all. This was a label making music for the masses, selling out. Saying a band is selling out when there expanding there horizons, changing producers, doing side projects and purposely have left the overdone numetal sound is just incorrect. Your opinion of not liking a style change is one thing, but calling them sellouts is incorrect or using the wrong word period. M2M was far from safe, formulaic or watever bs ur tryen to call it, it was just as solid as hybrid n meteora but almost as if a different band had created it, that was the producer change and the new direction lp wanted, not a radio, mainstream attempt by lp, what do they have to prove in sales or fan recognition at this point. To say M2M is pop punk emo rock as a negative thing lol wat the hell is hybrid n meteora, pop punk, emo mainstream numetal. They get hated on by many rock fans for playing that style. That is what they are and if u think M2M is that as well then they didn't even change. And if u think they made M2M to change with the american trend of mainstream then u don't know lp.

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Permalink Reply by Rmetalmuse on August 16, 2010 at 3:07pm

when i first heard the catalyst i was in deep shock... i coul'dn't believe what happend to lp!! but as i listened to it more it kinda grew on me.. can't wait to hear the rest of the album!

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Permalink Reply by Linkin Park forever on August 17, 2010 at 10:16am

Andra Lazarevic said:

But realistically, MTM does mostly hold the same formula that made LP's nu-metal children so popular, but only in a more mainstream way. I was shocked with how much it sounded like Green Day and shit, and pissed with how many people actually compared the two. I think Frederic Evans makes a great point with Peppers: they have matured over the years and made different music, but kept their signature style, as opposed to LP who had completely changed their DNA. At first I thought MTM was made just to join the mainstream and sell more records, and was actually happy with that. That meant I could pray that MTM doesn't sell as well as the previous two, in which case LP would realise what prings the big bucks and make another album which I would orgasm upon hearing. My wish did come true, but...
Then came the Catalyst.
It is clear that they have stayed the same (MTM same) which reopens the "why they changed" question. And I think it became clear that they HAVE changed personally, and, alas, that leaves no hope. They have become what they've become, and there's nothing left to do now but to buy a Slipknot album.
Oh, almost forgot... Hate it.

Shut Up about Green Day. Green Day is an awsome band with amaysing songs. If u don't like them. Ok. Dont care. Green Day has made awsome songs. Their is nothing wrong with comparing Linkin Park to Green Day. I've seen people compare Linkin Park to bands like Three Days Grace, Metalica, Eminem. Hollywood undead, Limp Bizkit, Slipknot, Disturbed and Alot more. People compare Linkin Park to crappy bands like the Jonas Brothers (which i think is retarded but I don;t say something like that on a forum). If you don't like Green Day, dont bother to coment about them.

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Permalink Reply by Alina on August 17, 2010 at 10:38am

I don`t know..I want OLD GOOD LINKIN PARK...But they tried...Hmm..so, 50\50...But i hope yet, that others 14 songs will be UNLIKE The Catalyst..Hope new album will be great..But Old LP never come back already =`(

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